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> IPL- 3 Edition, Guess the wineer
JS
post Apr 20 2010, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 20 2010, 02:54 PM) *

Atul Wassan made a very valid point yesterday after the match was over. He said that the main reason for DD and KKR to lose is mainly because of lack of proper home talent. MI, RCB, DC had good local talent too which fired when the foreigners and Indian A-list players failed. And that is the main reason why CSK and DC made to the semis inspite of being on the verge of being knocked out.

I would love to agree with him.




I don't agree totally with him that there was lack of home talent.For instance KKR had the most number of camps to the build up to the IPL and they had a good number of Indian youngsters as well as some seasoned campaigners.But what really went against KKR was wrong choice of 1st XI in match after match.

Will elaborate further like :

Anyday anytime Laxmi Ratan Shukla is an automatic choice for any Indian IPL side in this format of the game.A great utility cricketer with loads of experience would hv bring in much required stability in the middle order as well as his bowling and fielding would hv been an added bonus.Anyday he is better than the "Jamai Of Indian Cricket" Ajit Agarkar who is the most over rated cricketer in my generation.

Then there is no point in playing both Wriddhiman and Mccullum in the same XI when both are wicket keepers.If u r playing 2 wicket keepers in the same XI in such short format of the game then there is something seriously wrong in ur selection process or both of them r exceptional talents and can't b ignored.Now Wriddhi is not n exceptional talent and I think a Rohan Gavaskar who has loads of experience or another all rounder would hv been a greater impact.

One shouldn't forget that KKR went out because mainly of their poor bowling and we didn't hv much variety in the lineup and that also KKR's best bowler Murli Kartick didn't play 4 matches.Atleast Laxmi,Rohan,Vignesh would have brought in some variety in the bowling.

Lastly even the choice of foreign players there was certain mistakes made.In the last 2 matches Angelo Matthews played as a batsman.Last game agreed as Chris Gayle was not there.But why in the match against RR he was played instead of Hussey who is a better bat and can bowl his off spins also!!
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JS
post Apr 20 2010, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 20 2010, 02:54 PM) *

Atul Wassan made a very valid point yesterday after the match was over. He said that the main reason for DD and KKR to lose is mainly because of lack of proper home talent. MI, RCB, DC had good local talent too which fired when the foreigners and Indian A-list players failed. And that is the main reason why CSK and DC made to the semis inspite of being on the verge of being knocked out.

I would love to agree with him.



Also in case of RCB the foreign recruits Kallis,Pieterson and Dale Steyn were major contributors for the success.For DC Symonds played exceptionally well and Vaasi and Harris bowled well.
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Rishii
post Apr 20 2010, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 20 2010, 05:53 PM) *

I don't agree totally with him that there was lack of home talent.For instance KKR had the most number of camps to the build up to the IPL and they had a good number of Indian youngsters as well as some seasoned campaigners.But what really went against KKR was wrong choice of 1st XI in match after match.

Will elaborate further like :

Anyday anytime Laxmi Ratan Shukla is an automatic choice for any Indian IPL side in this format of the game.A great utility cricketer with loads of experience would hv bring in much required stability in the middle order as well as his bowling and fielding would hv been an added bonus.Anyday he is better than the "Jamai Of Indian Cricket" Ajit Agarkar who is the most over rated cricketer in my generation.

Then there is no point in playing both Wriddhiman and Mccullum in the same XI when both are wicket keepers.If u r playing 2 wicket keepers in the same XI in such short format of the game then there is something seriously wrong in ur selection process or both of them r exceptional talents and can't b ignored.Now Wriddhi is not n exceptional talent and I think a Rohan Gavaskar who has loads of experience or another all rounder would hv been a greater impact.

One shouldn't forget that KKR went out because mainly of their poor bowling and we didn't hv much variety in the lineup and that also KKR's best bowler Murli Kartick didn't play 4 matches.Atleast Laxmi,Rohan,Vignesh would have brought in some variety in the bowling.

Lastly even the choice of foreign players there was certain mistakes made.In the last 2 matches Angelo Matthews played as a batsman.Last game agreed as Chris Gayle was not there.But why in the match against RR he was played instead of Hussey who is a better bat and can bowl his off spins also!!



Well, Yes, like you said......KKR never got their right combination till the end. Infact what you said is what Atul Wassan pointed out too. If you had McCullum, then why take another keeper. An all rounder could have been accomodated instead. Or a better batsman. Dont know if Rohan Gavaskar would have been a better choice, though. Dont know if Laxmiratan Shukla and Ajit Agarkar can be put in the same league as Rohit Sharma or M Vijay or S Badrinath.

Secondly, Hussey was not given enough chances to fire. And Gayle and McCullum got more chances than Hussey but they didnt fire as required.
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Rishii
post Apr 20 2010, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 20 2010, 05:55 PM) *

Also in case of RCB the foreign recruits Kallis,Pieterson and Dale Steyn were major contributors for the success.For DC Symonds played exceptionally well and Vaasi and Harris bowled well.



They did fire. But then there was an Uthappa or Manish Pandey who bailed them out when none of them fired in RCB. There were Rayudu and Tiwari who bailed out MI when Pollard, Bravo or Jaisuriya failed. In case of CSK it was R Ashvin and M Vijay. This is the very same reason why DD is out. Nannes fired well, so did Collingwood. But local talents like Sehwag, Gambhir, Karthik didnt fire at all. Same goes for RR too.
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shubham
post Apr 20 2010, 10:11 PM
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IPL now is in shambles.
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JS
post Apr 20 2010, 11:19 PM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 20 2010, 06:51 PM) *

Dont know if Rohan Gavaskar would have been a better choice, though. Dont know if Laxmiratan Shukla and Ajit Agarkar can be put in the same league as Rohit Sharma or M Vijay or S Badrinath.





Were we aware of before this IPL that Murli Vijay can bat so effortlessly in 20-20 OR say before 3 IPLs who knew abt Rohit Sharma??Badri played well in this year IPL but in the last 2 versions he wasn't successful and his batting style follows the same pattern of Cheteswar Pujara.

Same with Laxmi who has performed well for KKR in the last season in SA even winning 2 MOMs.Rohan also is a seasoned campaigner with loads of xperience.U can never compare them with AJIT AGARKAR the most over-rated under performer in Indian Ckt.The kind of favours he got from Sachin and SG during their captaincy.Honestly speaking if I even got 50% of that I would have been a more better and consistent cktr than him.

My point is if u don't give chance to these players how will u know whether they belong 2 the same league,better or worse!!!
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JS
post Apr 20 2010, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 20 2010, 06:56 PM) *

They did fire. But then there was an Uthappa or Manish Pandey who bailed them out when none of them fired in RCB. There were Rayudu and Tiwari who bailed out MI when Pollard, Bravo or Jaisuriya failed. In case of CSK it was R Ashvin and M Vijay. This is the very same reason why DD is out. Nannes fired well, so did Collingwood. But local talents like Sehwag, Gambhir, Karthik didnt fire at all. Same goes for RR too.


Manish Pandey was a flop throughout this IPL.Utthappa played well no doubt about it but he got great support from the foreign recruits and also Bangalore batting lineup is the best in this IPL with so much depth.

For DD the opener (forgot his name) played well in patches and u will be surprised Shewag without scoring much still has piled up more than 330 runs in the tournament.

I think the only Team where the Indian players performed consistently throughout has been MI.Rayudu and Tiwari has been a great success this time.
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JS
post Apr 20 2010, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 20 2010, 06:51 PM) *


Secondly, Hussey was not given enough chances to fire. And Gayle and McCullum got more chances than Hussey but they didnt fire as required.




Agreed!!

Chris Gayle has never been a team man and no team in the world can rely on him.
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Rishii
post Apr 21 2010, 10:45 AM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 20 2010, 11:24 PM) *


For DD the opener (forgot his name) played well in patches and u will be surprised Shewag without scoring much still has piled up more than 330 runs in the tournament.

I think the only Team where the Indian players performed consistently throughout has been MI.Rayudu and Tiwari has been a great success this time.



Are you referring to David Warner from DD ?

I would consider MI and RCB having a consistent line-up, both in batting and bowling. For me, these two are deserving winners. I would be really sad if DC or CSK won with some luck despite being inconsistent througout.
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Rishii
post Apr 21 2010, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 20 2010, 11:19 PM) *

Were we aware of before this IPL that Murli Vijay can bat so effortlessly in 20-20 OR say before 3 IPLs who knew abt Rohit Sharma??Badri played well in this year IPL but in the last 2 versions he wasn't successful and his batting style follows the same pattern of Cheteswar Pujara.

Same with Laxmi who has performed well for KKR in the last season in SA even winning 2 MOMs.Rohan also is a seasoned campaigner with loads of xperience.U can never compare them with AJIT AGARKAR the most over-rated under performer in Indian Ckt.The kind of favours he got from Sachin and SG during their captaincy.Honestly speaking if I even got 50% of that I would have been a more better and consistent cktr than him.

My point is if u don't give chance to these players how will u know whether they belong 2 the same league,better or worse!!!



Would agree with you in patches. Pata nahin lekin, Shukla, Dinda, Tiwari etc par itna confidence aata nahi hai. They have performed, but in bits and pieces. Not many note-worthy performances from them in all the 3 IPLs. Somehow wo X-factor in logon mein nazar nahi aata hai.

Agree, Agarkar has enjoyed because of his proximity with Sachin and SG. But according to me even Pragyan Ojha and Ravindra Jadeja arent what you call - lambi race ka ghoda. They too are quite over-rated. They have time and gain exhibited some cheapness in attitude and behaviour. Success sabko hazam nahi hoti hai. Not all are Schin, Dravid, Kumble or Ganguly. There are people like Yuvraj, Pathan Brothers too. And unluckily most of this new cropcultivate the attitude of the latter.
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JS
post Apr 21 2010, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 21 2010, 11:17 AM) *

Would agree with you in patches. Pata nahin lekin, Shukla, Dinda, Tiwari etc par itna confidence aata nahi hai. They have performed, but in bits and pieces. Not many note-worthy performances from them in all the 3 IPLs. Somehow wo X-factor in logon mein nazar nahi aata hai.





This X - Factor along with MOMENTUM is an over used word in this year's IPL.

2 me both has nothing to do with Cricket as if a momentum is what matters then in a 3 match Test/1day series how come both Teams keep winning.It boils down 2 how one performs on that given day and especially this counts in a shortened game like 20-20.

Shukla,Dinda,Tiwari ke upar confidence nahi ataa because none of them are BIG NAMES in Indian ckt though all of them has been India knocking some point of time in their careers.Tiwari hasn't played much in the last 2 IPLs for Delhi (I think only 3 matches he played in total) but he is a heavy run getter in domestic circuit.Dinda bowled in patches last year in SA but this year he has been KKR's best bowler along with Murli Karthick being consistent in his performance.Specially the 2 overs he bowled against Delhi is regarded as the best opening spell by any bowler in this year's IPL.And Shukla a consistent performer in domestic ckt is tailor made for 20-20 but god knows what politics kept him out whereas players like Pujara,Mandeep who are not fit for 20-20 ckt were tried constantly.Shukla played 3 matches this year and in both matches performed satisafctory.

Coming 2 this X Factor I really don't understand what that means.
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JS
post Apr 21 2010, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 21 2010, 11:17 AM) *


Agree, Agarkar has enjoyed because of his proximity with Sachin and SG. But according to me even Pragyan Ojha and Ravindra Jadeja arent what you call - lambi race ka ghoda. They too are quite over-rated. They have time and gain exhibited some cheapness in attitude and behaviour. Success sabko hazam nahi hoti hai. Not all are Schin, Dravid, Kumble or Ganguly. There are people like Yuvraj, Pathan Brothers too. And unluckily most of this new cropcultivate the attitude of the latter.




Agarkar has not only enjoyed proximity but he has utilised it 2 the maximum.The only match which reminds us of Agarkar performing is that 6 wkt haul against Australia in Australia (I think Steve waugh's last Test match).Even that Lords century he hit was for a lost cause.

Pragyan Ojha is a very intelligent bowler and along with Murli kartick I will atleast rate him the best 2 Left Arm Spinners in the circuit today.A bowler who is not afraid to flight the ball and has loads of spin must be considered good and last 2 IPLs he has performed consistently for DC.Jadeja though performed well for RR last 2 years didn't do much playing for India whatever scope he got.But he definitely needs some more time.
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post Apr 21 2010, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 21 2010, 10:45 AM) *

Are you referring to David Warner from DD ?

I would consider MI and RCB having a consistent line-up, both in batting and bowling. For me, these two are deserving winners. I would be really sad if DC or CSK won with some luck despite being inconsistent througout.



Yes Warner only................a ferocious hitter of the cricket ball.

I do think MI is heavily dependent on Sachin.Just remove him and see the confidence level of the team.MI has won all the matches in which Sachin has performed in this year's IPL.

I would rather consider RC as the best balanced Team in this year's IPL.A player like Dravid coming at No.7 and Ross Taylor (the biggest hitter on the leg side between square leg and mid wicket) at No.6 proves the depth they hv in their batting.Coupled with that Kallis opening both batting and bowling gives them that extra advantage.A player of the callibre of Boucher needs to sit out,itself speaks of the depth and the quality of the side.

CSK had lot of luck going in their favour.And the biggest luck is playing in Chennai where opponents get drained out and dehydrated so early.
DC I would say fought back really hard and luck was not in their side as they lost few matches from winning positions.A Team who being at the bottom throughout and then winning all the last 5 matches consistently should be given the credit.They did what RCB achieved last year.
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Rishii
post Apr 21 2010, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 21 2010, 11:36 AM) *

This X - Factor along with MOMENTUM is an over used word in this year's IPL.

2 me both has nothing to do with Cricket as if a momentum is what matters then in a 3 match Test/1day series how come both Teams keep winning.It boils down 2 how one performs on that given day and especially this counts in a shortened game like 20-20.

Shukla,Dinda,Tiwari ke upar confidence nahi ataa because none of them are BIG NAMES in Indian ckt though all of them has been India knocking some point of time in their careers.Tiwari hasn't played much in the last 2 IPLs for Delhi (I think only 3 matches he played in total) but he is a heavy run getter in domestic circuit.Dinda bowled in patches last year in SA but this year he has been KKR's best bowler along with Murli Karthick being consistent in his performance.Specially the 2 overs he bowled against Delhi is regarded as the best opening spell by any bowler in this year's IPL.And Shukla a consistent performer in domestic ckt is tailor made for 20-20 but god knows what politics kept him out whereas players like Pujara,Mandeep who are not fit for 20-20 ckt were tried constantly.Shukla played 3 matches this year and in both matches performed satisafctory.

Coming 2 this X Factor I really don't understand what that means.



Statistics of Cheteshwar Pujara
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/32540.html

Statistics of L R Shukla
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/34019.html

The stastics dont favor Shukla either in batting or bowling. While Pujara has strong chances of making it in the Indian team. And I am sure he will represent the Indian team in Test matches in the near future.

X-Factor - Well, kaise define karu ! Sometimes in a match, when the asking rate is high, you feel that Sachin, Sourav, Dhoni, etc can achieve that. Ek inner confidence rehta hai. Arey abhi ye log baki hai....tension nai....ho jayega. But you dont build the same confidence on the types of Mongia, Kanitkar, Agarkar etc. They are best defined as stop-gap arrangements or also-rans.
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Rishii
post Apr 21 2010, 02:02 PM
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There is a thin line between agression and sledging. The likes of Yuvraj, Zaheer, Ojha, Harbhajan etc have always displayed this cheapness from time to time. I have never ever seen Sachin, Dravid, Kumble reacting in a derogatory manner. No verbal assaults. They let their work do the talking. This is what the younsters need to learn today. You may be talented but you need to build the right attitude. A person with combination of both goes on to become a legend. There are many talented cricketers but only few legends.And did you ever see any of the legends misbehave. Once in a while it might have happened but not repeatedly. Shane Warne - a legend, has numerous scandals outside cricket, but on field he never lost focus from the game.

Thats where the likes of Symonds, Harbhajan etc lose out. Temperament and attitude. Hope that these Ojhas and Jadejas of today learn this fast.
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JS
post Apr 22 2010, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 21 2010, 01:42 PM) *

Statistics of Cheteshwar Pujara
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/32540.html

Statistics of L R Shukla
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/34019.html

The stastics dont favor Shukla either in batting or bowling. While Pujara has strong chances of making it in the Indian team. And I am sure he will represent the Indian team in Test matches in the near future.





The statistics that u hv uploaded here has nothing 2 do with 20-20 cricket.
Akash Chopra had been the most prolific scorer in the last decade or so for Delhi and he was there in the KKR Team last 2 years.We all know what was his performance playing for KKR.But does it mean he is an average player??The answer is NO.He is a very good player for the longer version of the game but his game doesn't suit the 20-20 version.Same with Pujara.Pujara has always been a prolific scorer in domestic circuit and he may represent INDIA in the future in TESTS BUT the irony is we are talking abt 20-20 cricket and how does he fit in or posess a chance of making in the Indian 20-20 Team???None has any idea as why he has been played in most of the matches for KKR with the only significant contribution coming from him was in the last but one match where situation demanded his style of batting and he played very well.But he's not a 20-20 player not now atleast.

L.R.Shukla we have seen him grow over the years.He is idealy suited for this version of the game as he is an utility cricketer much in the same league like Shikar Diwan,Avisek Nayar.He would have definitely been a much much better bet than the players who were tried.

2 b very honest the young left arm pacer Jaidev Unadkat should thank his lucky stars that he managed 2 get 3 wkts against RR.Poor chap as I will never blame a youngster of 18 was all tensed up when Pathan was about to go hammers and tong till SG got hold of that brilliant catch.Yes agreed he got 3 wkts but mostly he bowled long hops and got managed just becos RR were losing wkts.
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post Apr 22 2010, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 21 2010, 01:42 PM) *


X-Factor - Well, kaise define karu ! Sometimes in a match, when the asking rate is high, you feel that Sachin, Sourav, Dhoni, etc can achieve that. Ek inner confidence rehta hai. Arey abhi ye log baki hai....tension nai....ho jayega. But you dont build the same confidence on the types of Mongia, Kanitkar, Agarkar etc. They are best defined as stop-gap arrangements or also-rans.




Ok understood.But is it the X Factor or it becos they r so supremely talented that one gets the confidence.

QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 21 2010, 02:02 PM) *

There is a thin line between agression and sledging. The likes of Yuvraj, Zaheer, Ojha, Harbhajan etc have always displayed this cheapness from time to time. I have never ever seen Sachin, Dravid, Kumble reacting in a derogatory manner. No verbal assaults. They let their work do the talking. This is what the younsters need to learn today. You may be talented but you need to build the right attitude. A person with combination of both goes on to become a legend. There are many talented cricketers but only few legends.And did you ever see any of the legends misbehave. Once in a while it might have happened but not repeatedly. Shane Warne - a legend, has numerous scandals outside cricket, but on field he never lost focus from the game.

Thats where the likes of Symonds, Harbhajan etc lose out. Temperament and attitude. Hope that these Ojhas and Jadejas of today learn this fast.



I hv lots 2 write on this issue...............1 of my favourite topics.Will post in detail 2mrw.
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post Apr 22 2010, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 AM) *

The statistics that u hv uploaded here has nothing 2 do with 20-20 cricket.
Akash Chopra had been the most prolific scorer in the last decade or so for Delhi and he was there in the KKR Team last 2 years.We all know what was his performance playing for KKR.But does it mean he is an average player??The answer is NO.He is a very good player for the longer version of the game but his game doesn't suit the 20-20 version.Same with Pujara.Pujara has always been a prolific scorer in domestic circuit and he may represent INDIA in the future in TESTS BUT the irony is we are talking abt 20-20 cricket and how does he fit in or posess a chance of making in the Indian 20-20 Team???None has any idea as why he has been played in most of the matches for KKR with the only significant contribution coming from him was in the last but one match where situation demanded his style of batting and he played very well.But he's not a 20-20 player not now atleast.




Well, my comment comes on the basis of inclusion of technically sound players like Dravid, Kallis, M Vijay etc. These players are so sound technically that it doesnt matter to them whether its T20 or Test match. Sachin is technically sound but not a big hitter (though he used to be once). He has so brilliantly demonstrated that you need to place the ball in the correct areas. With only 3 sixes compared to the tally of Utthappa and Hayden, he remains the highest scorer. He compensated the sixes with the fours. And as he correctly said, its all about waiting for the loose delivery. The runs are bound to come. No need to hit a six. There are players who hit a six and then play four dot balls. Whats the difference then ?

Coming to Pujara. He is technically sound. Maybe in a couple of years he will mould himself to the demands of this format. It took the third IPL for M Vijay to adapt. Same goes for Shukla and other players.
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post Apr 22 2010, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE(JS @ Apr 21 2010, 11:46 AM) *

I do think MI is heavily dependent on Sachin.Just remove him and see the confidence level of the team.MI has won all the matches in which Sachin has performed in this year's IPL.




Yesterday's match should answer your doubts. He didnt perform and yet they posted a huge score. Maybe his presence is enough to boost the players - whether he performs or not is secondary.

With his injury, I am doubt if he will play in the finals. Hope its not that serious.
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post Apr 22 2010, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE(Rishii @ Apr 22 2010, 10:27 AM) *

Yesterday's match should answer your doubts. He didnt perform and yet they posted a huge score. Maybe his presence is enough to boost the players - whether he performs or not is secondary.

With his injury, I am doubt if he will play in the finals. Hope its not that serious.




Yesterday's match still didn't answer my doubts.After Sachin got out MI were reeling at one point of time and due 2 some lusty hitting by pollard and some mindless bowling by RC they could reach that total.Even the commentators said after the match that without Sachin MI are down by 50% so his playing in the final is very important.

If u go through the records of this year IPL there has been only 1 match (AFAIR) which MI won where Sachin didn't perform other than yesterday's semi final.
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 13th July 2020 - 07:12 AM