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> The Fantastic Four, Is it time to say "Goodbye" ?
Rishii
post Oct 2 2008, 04:03 PM
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Despite a very poor show by the top 4 premier batsmen of India against Srilanka....Sachin Tendulkar, Sourav Ganuly, Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman find a place in the Indian team. Is this selection justified ? Or is it the absence of a bench strength in the Test Team that justifies this selection ? The failure of Rohit Sharma, Waseem Jaffer, Yuvraj Singh and Akash Chopra at the international level (in Tests) justifiably reduces the bench strength and gives enough opportunities to these four to thrive on. However at the same time, looking at their past records, one doesnt take away their capability to perform......but it is the lack of consistency that signals the need for them to retire gracefully and make way for new talent. Maybe if this new lot is given the same number of opportunities that these 4 are given, then maybe the new crop might bloom into a better lot..........especially given the comparision of their ages.

The past records suggest that we lost all the test matches in the last year only because of the failure of the batting department and not bowling.......and hence this justifiably excludes Anil Kumble as a failure. Also his recent strike rate is not bad enough.

What do you guys say ?
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JS
post Oct 2 2008, 09:29 PM
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We r very good in finding scapegoats and this FAB 4 is the latest victim.

1st let us find competent substitutes who can without any questions asked can just walk in substituting them THEN we shld consider such things.
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Rishii
post Oct 3 2008, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE(JS @ Oct 2 2008, 09:29 PM) *
We r very good in finding scapegoats and this FAB 4 is the latest victim.

1st let us find competent substitutes who can without any questions asked can just walk in substituting them THEN we shld consider such things.




Wish to differ here, JS.......But then they should have a sense of responsibility towards their country and audience, and perform consistently. And if they feel that health is not permitting then they should retire gracefully. Mark Taylor,Shane Warne, Steve Waugh, Brian Lara, Shaun Pollock, Alan Donald, Courtney Walsh Adam Gilchrist etc......all retired gracefully when they felt that their fitness or reflexes were not supporting their abilities. And if you dont want to retire, then keep on performing - like Mathew Hayden and Jaysuriya - who are a couple of years older to these guys and yet in full glory. There is no denying their past records and abilities, but then they should be honest judge of their shortcomings and make a decision.

Rahi baat substitutes ki.......to jitne chance in logo ko is umar mein mil rahe hai, agar new comers ko diye jaye to definitely 1 ya 2 achche players groom ho jayenge. Sachin Tendulkar is a classic example. Though he was immensely talented, he had to wait until the 84th ODI to score his first century. So that speaks about the trust of the selectors and the captain in his abilities despite his inconsistency.

What do yo say?
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indydave
post Oct 3 2008, 12:07 PM
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Steve Waugh certainly did not retire gracefully - rather, the ACB was gracious enough to let him continue until he could bow out in a 'graceful' fashion. A minor point, though.

I'm trying to think of a single Indian player who has bowed out gracefully - the reasons for the final exit have ranged from shameful ineptitude on the field to match-fixing, but never anyone on their own terms. I guess one exception might be Gavaskar? The saddest example for me, is still Kapil Dev - he was rather pushed out of the team, finally, and if it were not for the consideration of Hadlee's record, he might have gone long before that,

Indydave
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Rishii
post Oct 3 2008, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE(indydave @ Oct 3 2008, 12:07 PM) *
Steve Waugh certainly did not retire gracefully - rather, the ACB was gracious enough to let him continue until he could bow out in a 'graceful' fashion. A minor point, though.

I'm trying to think of a single Indian player who has bowed out gracefully - the reasons for the final exit have ranged from shameful ineptitude on the field to match-fixing, but never anyone on their own terms. I guess one exception might be Gavaskar? The saddest example for me, is still Kapil Dev - he was rather pushed out of the team, finally, and if it were not for the consideration of Hadlee's record, he might have gone long before that,

Indydave




You are right, Indy. Except Gavaskar and Vengsarkar, I dont recall any player who was given a graceful farewell or exit. Even Kapil dragged himself just to break Hadlee's record. I wouldnt talk about players like Azharuddin et al. And looking at Sachin's persistance to establish records against his names, is the only incentive to let him play.

I seriously doubt if any of the 11 are really playing for the pride of their country. Everybody is busy filling up their coffers. They are all seen more in advertisements and realty shows. I have never seen them playing with commitment like the Australians or South Africans do.
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JS
post Oct 3 2008, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE(rishi1972 @ Oct 3 2008, 11:32 AM) *

Wish to differ here, JS.......But then they should have a sense of responsibility towards their country and audience, and perform consistently. And if they feel that health is not permitting then they should retire gracefully. Mark Taylor,Shane Warne, Steve Waugh, Brian Lara, Shaun Pollock, Alan Donald, Courtney Walsh Adam Gilchrist etc......all retired gracefully when they felt that their fitness or reflexes were not supporting their abilities. And if you dont want to retire, then keep on performing - like Mathew Hayden and Jaysuriya - who are a couple of years older to these guys and yet in full glory. There is no denying their past records and abilities, but then they should be honest judge of their shortcomings and make a decision.

Rahi baat substitutes ki.......to jitne chance in logo ko is umar mein mil rahe hai, agar new comers ko diye jaye to definitely 1 ya 2 achche players groom ho jayenge. Sachin Tendulkar is a classic example. Though he was immensely talented, he had to wait until the 84th ODI to score his first century. So that speaks about the trust of the selectors and the captain in his abilities despite his inconsistency.

What do yo say?


Well Rishi..............indy has already replied.None amongst the above had a memorable exit.See its a very difficult scenario.I do not think that its only for money they play....no no way.Its something like passion and interest and what they r doing for so many years it becomes a habit and they dn't want 2 leave that easily.Like say Ashaji still singing.

Substitutes...........well they do get groomed with time but now we do not have 4 able subs to replace the FAB4 instantly.
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bobby_mudgel
post Oct 4 2008, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Oct 4 2008, 12:10 AM) *

Well Rishi..............indy has already replied.None amongst the above had a memorable exit.See its a very difficult scenario.I do not think that its only for money they play....no no way.Its something like passion and interest and what they r doing for so many years it becomes a habit and they dn't want 2 leave that easily.Like say Ashaji still singing.

Substitutes...........well they do get groomed with time but now we do not have 4 able subs to replace the FAB4 instantly.



dada mere ko nahin lagta ki paasion jaisi koi cheej involve hai--aur ye log khelne ke liye khelna chahte hain--aisa hota tou--gagnguli jab captain tha tab nagpur ki wicket ki graas dekhkar khelne se mana nahin karta--wahin se ganguli ka impresssion kharaab hona shuru hua tha---sachin ab kewal records ke liye khelna chahta hai---drawid hi ek player hai jiska abhi aur khelna banta hai---laxman ke feet kharaab ho gaye hain--aajkal ki cricket bahut demanding hai agar aap game ke kisi ek part main bhi zero hain tou aapka khelna nahin banta(fielding bahut jaroori hai)-------austarlia main hote tou all 4 aaj ya tou selector hote ya caoch ya adviser ya commentry kar rahe hote. (IMG:style_emoticons/OurHFMEmot/rolleyes.gif)
believe me dada cricket aur cricketers ko jitne najdeek se main jaanta hoon site par koi nahin jaanta hoga tou jo dekha hai wahi likh raha hoon.
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Rishii
post Oct 4 2008, 04:11 PM
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Sahi Baat hai Bobby.

Second thing.............at 33-34 years look at their fitness. Ganguly is hardly agile and able to field. Tendulkar keeps on gettin injured. Laxman has an osciallting form since years. Even Dravid who was known as "The Wall", is now showing weak footwork and signs of late reflexes. Compared to them, look at Hayden, Jaysuriya, Lara.......who were/are 3-4 years senior and yet more fit.

Sometimes we get emotional to support them, but then, fact always remains. I post a link here to forward my point.

http://sports.in.msn.com/cricket/stories/a...umentid=1674482

Please read through it without any bias.
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JS
post Oct 5 2008, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE(bobby_mudgel @ Oct 4 2008, 01:22 PM) *

dada mere ko nahin lagta ki paasion jaisi koi cheej involve hai--aur ye log khelne ke liye khelna chahte hain--aisa hota tou--gagnguli jab captain tha tab nagpur ki wicket ki graas dekhkar khelne se mana nahin karta--wahin se ganguli ka impresssion kharaab hona shuru hua tha---sachin ab kewal records ke liye khelna chahta hai---drawid hi ek player hai jiska abhi aur khelna banta hai---laxman ke feet kharaab ho gaye hain--aajkal ki cricket bahut demanding hai agar aap game ke kisi ek part main bhi zero hain tou aapka khelna nahin banta(fielding bahut jaroori hai)-------austarlia main hote tou all 4 aaj ya tou selector hote ya caoch ya adviser ya commentry kar rahe hote. (IMG:style_emoticons/OurHFMEmot/rolleyes.gif)
believe me dada cricket aur cricketers ko jitne najdeek se main jaanta hoon site par koi nahin jaanta hoga tou jo dekha hai wahi likh raha hoon.


Bobby am aware that u know them from quite close as u r still involved with the game.
I do agree on most of the points which u hv raised but I dn't think Sachin plays for records now.He is above all that.And yes the sport has become very demanding BUT my only point is:

1)The Board cannot decide who will quit and when.Its not the Board who shld b running the players.On the contrary becos of these players the BOARD exist.

2)We shld hv enough good replacements who can take this FAB 4 place.I don't think a Raina or a Kaif or a Kohli can do that instantly.Amongst the current crop I regard Rohit Sharma as exceptionaly talented who can b a great asset for the future.
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bobby_mudgel
post Oct 5 2008, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Oct 5 2008, 03:48 PM) *

Bobby am aware that u know them from quite close as u r still involved with the game.
I do agree on most of the points which u hv raised but I dn't think Sachin plays for records now.He is above all that.And yes the sport has become very demanding BUT my only point is:

1)The Board cannot decide who will quit and when.Its not the Board who shld b running the players.On the contrary becos of these players the BOARD exist.

2)We shld hv enough good replacements who can take this FAB 4 place.I don't think a Raina or a Kaif or a Kohli can do that instantly.Amongst the current crop I regard Rohit Sharma as exceptionaly talented who can b a great asset for the future.




dada sabse badi baat ye hai ki main baat se har koi aware nahin hota---agar koi senior player 3-4 saal extra khel jata hai tou vo kai aise player ka career start hone se pehle hi khatam kar deta hai jo 10-12 saal khel sakte hain----isliye main australian board ki taaref karta hoon--unko pata haota hai ki jis player ko vo retire hone ke liye bol rahe hain vo abhi 3-4 saal achcha khel sakta hai--lekin vo 3-4 saal ke chakkar main kisi dossre player ka career end nahin karte jo lamba khel sakta hai---steve waugh--damien martin--glen m---shane w-----abhi bhi kisi ek team par akele bhari pad sate hain--but wahaan player khud bhi apne responsblity samjhta hai---------------aur laakh baaton ki ek baat hai cricket ab ek tamasha ban kar reh gaya hai----board aur media milkar logon ko cricket ka nashaa karwa rahe hain--aur paise bana rahe hain.
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oye_sonu
post Oct 8 2008, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Oct 2 2008, 03:59 PM) *

We r very good in finding scapegoats and this FAB 4 is the latest victim.

1st let us find competent substitutes who can without any questions asked can just walk in substituting them THEN we shld consider such things.




(IMG:style_emoticons/OurHFMEmot/happy.gif) Bahut badiya dada ! sahi kaha !

I agree with u fully !


sonu
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oye_sonu
post Oct 8 2008, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE(indydave @ Oct 3 2008, 06:37 AM) *

The saddest example for me, is still Kapil Dev - he was rather pushed out of the team, finally, and if it were not for the consideration of Hadlee's record, he might have gone long before that,

Indydave


Indy If I recall properly watever I have read or seen, I think it was just 1 last year( or months? ) that kapil was really not doing great. even earlier his form might have dipped but his performance was still comparable with best in the country !


Sonu
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oye_sonu
post Oct 8 2008, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Oct 5 2008, 09:18 AM) *

Bobby am aware that u know them from quite close as u r still involved with the game.
I do agree on most of the points which u hv raised but I dn't think Sachin plays for records now.He is above all that.And yes the sport has become very demanding BUT my only point is:

1)The Board cannot decide who will quit and when.Its not the Board who shld b running the players.On the contrary becos of these players the BOARD exist.

2)We shld hv enough good replacements who can take this FAB 4 place.I don't think a Raina or a Kaif or a Kohli can do that instantly.Amongst the current crop I regard Rohit Sharma as exceptionaly talented who can b a great asset for the future.


Dubara se bahut badiya points Dada.

ek aur point add karna chahunga. these 4 have performed right from the begining. and these youngsters are yet to show that kind of talent ! they ahve been rather inconsistent over the same no of matches. so no one can be sure that they will long race ka ghoda ! you retire 4 to make place for these chhokras , who are yet to show their consistency !

I fear we might end up making a musical chair game for the 4 possible vacancies....with people going in and out ! ( remind you we are yet to find a decent opening pair ! )



Sonu
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indydave
post Oct 9 2008, 03:54 AM
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QUOTE(oye_sonu @ Oct 8 2008, 03:24 AM) *

Indy If I recall properly watever I have read or seen, I think it was just 1 last year( or months? ) that kapil was really not doing great. even earlier his form might have dipped but his performance was still comparable with best in the country !
Sonu


Thanks for raising this point, Sonu - I do realize I was but a stripling when Kapil broke Hadlee's record, so my memories of statistics are not very clear.
As such, I decided to do some fact-checking before replying to your post :)

What I found is not particularly flattering for Paaji ...

He has always been the slow one in taking wickets amongst the top wicket-takers, but he really decelerated towards the end, and not just in the last few months. He took ~3 years (!) and 17 test matches to move from the 400 wicket mark to the 434 wicket-mark (Jan '92 to Nov '94).

As a reference point, he broke the record in Jan/Feb 94.

In my opinion, it was justifiable on Kapil's part as well as the board's part to let him continue on to break Hadlee's record (it is a great achievement for a pace bowler even today, and I am glad that he achieved it :)), but he should have retired promptly after breaking the record, rather than dragging it on to the end of the year, before he was eased out of his place in the team - that's just my opinion, though :)

Indydave


PS: Of course, even in those last 2-3 years, Kapil's performance may have been on par with the 'best in the country,' as you have mentioned, which is not particularly flattering to the team ;)
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Rishii
post Oct 9 2008, 12:08 PM
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Sonu,

I choose to disagree with you. Kapil Dev was retained just to break Hadlee's record. This is a very known fact and I endorse this strongly because it was conveyed to me by a member of the then Indian Cricket team. He was hardly getting wickets and his pace had considerably reduced to just 110-115 kph - the speed at which Kumble bowls his flippers.

Second point regarding the optimum replacement for the fab4. Like I already said, It was after 84 ODI's that sachin scored his first century. So he was given chances upto 83 ODIs to prove his talent. Dont you think that the newer lot should be atleast given that much chance? It is just that in the age of T20, the selectors and public hanve immediate expectations from them. Also the fab4 are all over 34 or 35. I dont say that it is the age of retirement, but then for them to continue, they should display great reflexes, skills and performances to justifiy their selection. Do you think Dada is as agile now (i wonder if he was ever) ? Sachin is more unfit than fit. So does this mean that his body is slowing down ? Rahul is known to be the best batsman for spin and it is a known fact. But his two dismissals by Mendis proves that his reflexes are slowing down. I have never ever seen Rahul getting out "bowled" to such a delivery. His defences are so solid. So seeing him get out in that fashion does raise a few questions. I dont mean to oppose their selection but then to justify their selection, they must perform like Hayden, Jaysurya, Shaun Pollock et all who were/are in the team purely on their performances.

The younger lot is an average of 23-24 years. If they have to wait another 3 years without international exposure, then we might never have another Sachin, beacause Sachin debuted at the age of 17 and got 2-3 years to prove himself and establish himself. Even Sourave debuted in 96 at th age of 24 but had to wait another 2 years to enter the team again. So this is pure waste of the productive years.

This is just my opinion. Hope someone agrees out here.
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oye_sonu
post Oct 9 2008, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE(indydave @ Oct 8 2008, 10:24 PM) *

Thanks for raising this point, Sonu - I do realize I was but a stripling when Kapil broke Hadlee's record, so my memories of statistics are not very clear.
As such, I decided to do some fact-checking before replying to your post :)

What I found is not particularly flattering for Paaji ...

He has always been the slow one in taking wickets amongst the top wicket-takers, but he really decelerated towards the end, and not just in the last few months. He took ~3 years (!) and 17 test matches to move from the 400 wicket mark to the 434 wicket-mark (Jan '92 to Nov '94).

As a reference point, he broke the record in Jan/Feb 94.

In my opinion, it was justifiable on Kapil's part as well as the board's part to let him continue on to break Hadlee's record (it is a great achievement for a pace bowler even today, and I am glad that he achieved it :)), but he should have retired promptly after breaking the record, rather than dragging it on to the end of the year, before he was eased out of his place in the team - that's just my opinion, though :)

Indydave
PS: Of course, even in those last 2-3 years, Kapil's performance may have been on par with the 'best in the country,' as you have mentioned, which is not particularly flattering to the team ;)


Hi
Indy I didnt said that he was not made to continue just for the sake of records. but I wanted to say that his record was not that bad in last few years as compared to other fast bowlers.
If Iam not wrong Srinath and prabhakar were there during 92-95. I dont recall other fast bowler. ( v prasad?). unless we check their performance we cant say that whether only Kapil was doing avg or all of them were not doing great. ( Srinath had good pefromance. in mid ninties. but not sure of years )

Actually problem is that you have 3 bowlers.......2 always bowl avg and 1 is exceptional. If with age the exceptional one starts bowling avg.......people start saying that he shd be retired. I think they shd bring replacement and then talk abt replacement



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oye_sonu
post Oct 9 2008, 02:01 PM
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Indy

Nothing speaks better then STATS.

So here is yearwise stats of each bowler( including spinners ) for the yearss you mentioned !
( remind you none of them were good batsmen except prabhakar )

year 1992
Tests :
: Kapil dev is highest Wicket taker with 25 in india avg29 ( infact 5th highest !), prabhkar -24, avg- 36 , kumble -17 avg 25 srinath - 16 avg 45.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1992;type=year

One days :

Prabhakar highest with 28 wickets at 25 avg srinth - 20 @ avg 31 , kapil dev 16 @ avg 38


http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1992;type=year


Year 1993


Tests :

Anil kumble is highest wkt taker - 46 @ avg 23, Prabhkar 19 @ 23 , raju 19 Avg 36 Kapil 16 @ 26
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1993;type=year

One days

Srinath 34 @avg 19 , prabkar 22 avg @ 28 kumble 18 avg @ 29 kapil 16 @ avg 32

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1993;type=year


year 1994 ( he retired in march 1994.... and played only 4 tests)

Test matches( 7 tests)

Highest wk taker was raju 39 @ 19 in 7 tests , then kumble 33@ avg 25 , RK chauhan 18 @ avg 29
Srinath ( 4tests) 13 wkts @ avg 38 prabhakar 10 @ avg 34 kapil ( 4 tests) 9 wts @ avg 27

he plays only 4 tests and still manages 2nd lowest strike rate, lowest econ among fast bowlers and 2nd lowest avg !

One days(23 one days)

Srinath 33 wkts @ avg 25 kumble 32 @ avg 27 raju (10 1-days) 17 wkts @ 19 , pbhakar(14) 17 wkts @ 29
Kapil 10 matches 5 wickets @ 54 lowest eco of all bowlers !


Regards

Sonu








Sonu
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JS
post Oct 9 2008, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE(rishi1972 @ Oct 9 2008, 12:08 PM) *

Sonu,

I choose to disagree with you. Kapil Dev was retained just to break Hadlee's record. This is a very known fact and I endorse this strongly because it was conveyed to me by a member of the then Indian Cricket team. He was hardly getting wickets and his pace had considerably reduced to just 110-115 kph - the speed at which Kumble bowls his flippers.

Second point regarding the optimum replacement for the fab4. Like I already said, It was after 84 ODI's that sachin scored his first century. So he was given chances upto 83 ODIs to prove his talent. Dont you think that the newer lot should be atleast given that much chance? It is just that in the age of T20, the selectors and public hanve immediate expectations from them. Also the fab4 are all over 34 or 35. I dont say that it is the age of retirement, but then for them to continue, they should display great reflexes, skills and performances to justifiy their selection. Do you think Dada is as agile now (i wonder if he was ever) ? Sachin is more unfit than fit. So does this mean that his body is slowing down ? Rahul is known to be the best batsman for spin and it is a known fact. But his two dismissals by Mendis proves that his reflexes are slowing down. I have never ever seen Rahul getting out "bowled" to such a delivery. His defences are so solid. So seeing him get out in that fashion does raise a few questions. I dont mean to oppose their selection but then to justify their selection, they must perform like Hayden, Jaysurya, Shaun Pollock et all who were/are in the team purely on their performances.

The younger lot is an average of 23-24 years. If they have to wait another 3 years without international exposure, then we might never have another Sachin, beacause Sachin debuted at the age of 17 and got 2-3 years to prove himself and establish himself. Even Sourave debuted in 96 at th age of 24 but had to wait another 2 years to enter the team again. So this is pure waste of the productive years.

This is just my opinion. Hope someone agrees out here.


Rishi....

1stly Sachin scoring his maiden century after 83ODIs has nothing to prove his class,worth in that Team.One has 2 understand the batting order at which he used to bat that time and also before that 100 he has played many a great innings to prove his worth in that lineup.Chetan Chauhan without scoring a century is his entire international career still remains the best opening pair with SG.So scoring a century has nothing 2 do with how many oppurtunities he has been given.

2ndly one has 2 understand when Sachin made his debut and now 2 decades has passed.Modern day ckt is much faster and due to media hype evryone knows abt evrything in Indian ckt and all of us hv an opinion 2 make.Ppl's patience level has gone down.

FYI Jaysuria,Hayden,Pollock each one of their's reflexes has gone down with age which is very much visible when they play.But what gets them going is the loads of experience they hv,the respect they draw from opposition which I am afraid a Raina,or a Kaif or a Yuvraj has never been able 2 do.Same with the FAB4.The man in question Sourav Ganguly has been the most run getter for India in the last 2 years in Test matches and FYI he was the only batsmen amongst the top who never got out 2 Mendis in SL and played him with confidence.Just becos he failed in 1 series now questions abt his fitness,agility comes up which was never his FORTE in his hey days also.Lets talk abt what his FORTE is and that is MENTAL STRENGTH ,GAME READING,RESPECT HE DRAWS FROM OPPOSITION bla bla and then introspect whether he lacks in them now.

Lets not forget the last test against SA which he singlehandedly won for India not many months ago under Dhoni.Lets give him the respect which HE DESERVES....
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oye_sonu
post Oct 9 2008, 02:54 PM
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Here are batting stats ( one very big point in fav of kapil ! )

I found new links u can check batting as well as bowling stats for each bowler !

Year 1994.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1994;type=year

year 1993

Check his batting stats . he is avging 35 in batting here ! and no of wickets are @ 3rd lowest avg !!

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1993;type=year


year 1992

Here is 4th highest run getter and highest wicket taker.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/record...=1992;type=year


I dont know how one can say he is was over by 1993 ?? ( so its not 3 years.......its last few months of his career when his performance really dipped ! )


Yes I just checked his batting stats of ONe dayers in 1994.........those are not great. ( though 10 matches are no criteria to judge a crickter like him !! )


Regards

Sonu

Ps : Rishi ji I wil reply to your post soon. Ghar per constrcution chll araha hai.....wo bhi edekhna hai !
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oye_sonu
post Oct 9 2008, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE(JS @ Oct 9 2008, 09:08 AM) *

Rishi....

1stly Sachin scoring his maiden century after 83ODIs has nothing to prove his class,worth in that Team.One has 2 understand the batting order at which he used to bat that time and also before that 100 he has played many a great innings to prove his worth in that lineup.Chetan Chauhan without scoring a century is his entire international career still remains the best opening pair with SG.So scoring a century has nothing 2 do with how many oppurtunities he has been given.

2ndly one has 2 understand when Sachin made his debut and now 2 decades has passed.Modern day ckt is much faster and due to media hype evryone knows abt evrything in Indian ckt and all of us hv an opinion 2 make.Ppl's patience level has gone down.

FYI Jaysuria,Hayden,Pollock each one of their's reflexes has gone down with age which is very much visible when they play.But what gets them going is the loads of experience they hv,the respect they draw from opposition which I am afraid a Raina,or a Kaif or a Yuvraj has never been able 2 do.Same with the FAB4.The man in question Sourav Ganguly has been the most run getter for India in the last 2 years in Test matches and FYI he was the only batsmen amongst the top who never got out 2 Mendis in SL and played him with confidence.Just becos he failed in 1 series now questions abt his fitness,agility comes up which was never his FORTE in his hey days also.Lets talk abt what his FORTE is and that is MENTAL STRENGTH ,GAME READING,RESPECT HE DRAWS FROM OPPOSITION bla bla and then introspect whether he lacks in them now.

Lets not forget the last test against SA which he singlehandedly won for India not many months ago under Dhoni.Lets give him the respect which HE DESERVES....



Fantastic Reply. Infact you wrote many points which I wanted to raise.

A player hits 100 on debut or after 100 ODIs....... how does it proves he is doing great?

Check wat had happened to Viru some years ago. His form had hit bottom low ! and now he is back again among run getters. no body said he shd be retired.

Wats our problem : These 4's performance has been so good that we cant expect them to play anything below that or like other avg team members. thats why all of us start crying over their age whenever they play ordinarily like other players ! !


This is BS......you are forcing some one to retire who has got highest runs in Test cricket last year !
( infact last year SG was 2nd highest run getter among all world players ! )

how the prblem started :
T20 cup : once these youngsters won the T20 cup..everyone started saying. that in one day and Tests too....jung-sters shd lead and seniors shd retire ! they are probabily not seeing the difference in the formats of each of these game. T20 hardly require......its all about hitting the ball. thats why you had many surprise performances by many unknown players !


Sri lanka tour : Dhoyi ni's one day perfromed badly in Asia cup(???) against the same mendis. Mendis is class bowler. so ALL the people had problem in handling him. Openers managed to get more runs because mendis was not used in opening overs. thats why Sehwag and Gautam mangaed few runs !

If you check the Australian tour of Indian team. Check the batting stats of Dhoni, etc they shd have been droped for next tour if form is the criteria.



Dhoyi- ni plays politics. Remember how once Dravid rejected one day captainship and Dhoyi ni took over. and in next tour.........Dravid and SG(??) were out of team ! and Dhoyi ni himself said that he didnt wanted them !




Sonu
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